Photo courtesy of Icynene.com
Remember, my Top 10 This Next List , where I posted my ten favorite green building products? Number 5 on the list is Icynene®, an open cell spray foam insulation. It basically provides a barrier to prevent drafts, condensation, and outdoor allergens from penetrating the building envelope. From personal experience, this is an amazing product.
Icynene® was installed inside the cavities of our exterior walls including the basement walls. I have a geothermal system and swear that my energy bills are so low because of the combination of the two. I run my house at 76 to 78 during the summer (but at 74 at night on the second floor) and am quite comfortable. In the winter I run the house at 68. My air conditioning never runs in the basement and it never feels humid.It is expensive compared to the other insulations. A couple of years ago, I paid $1.40 for a board foot (northeast prices). A board foot is a 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 inch thick square. For my area, it is recommended that there is 6 inches of depth in each cavity wall. (Each board foot is equal to R 3.6) However, in my opinion this insulation is a superior product to fiberglass or other insulations because of the air barrier.Why open cell versus closed cell? Closed cell is denser and therefore more expensive. However, it has a higher R value than an open celled insulation. We chose open cell insulation because we were told that the closed cell insulation off-gassed chemicals. This may or may not be true at the time we installed our insulation, but I was frightened by the prospect of this being true. In addition, if there was a water leak, I would find it easier with an open cell insulation because water can move through it unlike closed cell. Some people prefer closed cell because of its higher R value and it provides a better air barrier.
Icynene has two different applications depending on whether its use is for new construction or touch-ups. Icynene Insulation System ®, which is used for new construction and major retrofits, has two different formulas: sprayed and pour. “Icynene®’s pour fill variation is an insulation and air barrier that injects the latest building technology into an older building to maximize energy efficiency while still preserving its original architectural details,” according to the makers of Icynene® To view both the spray and pour systems in action, view the videos here. If you have a small project or need a touch up, then Gold Seal 400 ® is the product you would use.
In addition, on their website, there is a chart comparing different insulations to Icynene in certain categories such as damaged by water, R value, and whether or not there are any harmful emissions produced after installation is complete. (Remember, this chart is produced by Icynene, not a third party, so use it as a guide.)
Does it have a downside? Icynene® is a petroleum based product. You may or may not view this as a downside.
There are soy-based foam insulations, but I do not have any experience with these products. When we were looking at the different insulations, soy was getting negative publicity. (I heard it was shrinking inside the walls so the stated R value was diminished.) Was this a marketing effort by the other insulation companies? I don’t know. Does anyone have any experience with the soy-based insulations?
For additional reading about the varying type of insulations, Homepower.com has a nice article. See “Get Energy Smart Insulation Options” written in March 2006.
Regardless of which insulation that you choose, the actual installation is the key. If any insulation is installed improperly, it does not matter what its stated R value is. Obtain recommendations from people who have used your intended installer. In addition, read the literature on the product you are intending on using to familiarize yourself with how it is supposed to be installed. An educated homeowner is a happy homeowner in the long run.
I would love feedback on open versus closed cell insulation, and the product you like best and why.
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Gary, we’re located in Chicago and live in a brownstone 1930’s recently rehabbed 3-flat. Unfortunately the builder did little to nothing with regards to insulation – either between floors or to exterior walls, crawl spaces etc. We too have plaster walls but need to find a solution that can be blown or poured in. What would you suggest please for our place? It’s freezing (even the pipes have frozen) and our furnace is struggling to keep it at 56f! Many thanks in advance for your wise counsel.
After reading all these posts and a hundred or so articles about the safety, durability, and energy savings from using Icynene plus seeing all the environmental certifications about it AND the international acceptance of Icynene as one of the very best foam products ever, I am intrigued that no one has brought up the probability of improper installation, or pre-existing conditions.
Home builders, commercial clients, homeowners by the thousands environmental experts, testing labs, all over the world are promoting this as the all round safest product of its kind.
Are they all 100% wrong or deluded?
No they are neither wrong nor deluded.
Icynene will work just fine if properly installed in a proper situation. It is not the right answer for every job and there are situations where it is not the best and might even be the worst choice.
Done right it is great, done wrong it is trouble.
Interesting site with a lot of good info.
I do not see anyone mention P2000.
Go to the site P2insulation.com for information about what I believe is the best insulation available today.
The biggest heat loss factor with insulation after the air infiltration has been stopped is radiant heat loss.
Spray foams do not address this at all.
Would gladly field questions about this product that I discovered about 1 month ago. I’m building a timber frame house in Mass. and was looking for alternatives to foam core panels ( $$$ ). P2000 showed up on a blog, I did a lot of research, and found what looks like the answer to what a great insulation product should do.
Taylor, can you tell us about P2 insulation. Anna
Anna, P2000 is an EPS core, with facings of reflective mylar on both sides. It comes in rolls 4′ wide x 100′ long ( 1/4″, 3/8″, 1/2″ ), and sheets 4′ x 8′ x 3/8″, 1/2″, 5/8″, 3/4″, 1″, 1 1/2″, 2″, and 3″.
The company uses proprietary methods of manufacturing.
The posted R values are the same as EPS, but in March the new tested R values will be published and promise to be the industry leader.
All the testimonials I have read show P2000 to be the best in all categories.
It does what insulation is suppose to do.
1. stop air infiltration.
2. it’s a vapor barrier.
3. it stops thermal bridging, which has not been addressed on this post. 2x framing in walls accounts for approx. 25% of wall space. All spray foam insulations cannot insulate the studs, headers, plates, jacks, cripples, partition backers, or corner blocks. The R value of these framing members is about R 3.
That means that with spray foams, 25% of your walls are still a R 3.
4. it is a radiant blocker. This is perhaps the biggest advantage of this product. Radiant heat loss is calculated to be between 50% – 80% of the total heat loss in buildings and homes.
P2000 stops 90% of this heat loss in the walls and ceilings using the reflective mylar coatings with the EPS core.
5. it is a radon barrier.
With any new innovation there will be adjustments to deal with regarding installation, but the way I see it is to do it right the first time and be done with it…
I have been in the building trade for 30 yrs., and have had a keen interest in innovative products in our industry.
Unfortunately, house construction has lagged WAY BEHIND other industries in terms of technology and cutting edge innovation and design.
If you are interested in the leading edge of home construction, I would urge you to get Tedd Benson’s latest book on the building they do. He owns a timberframe company in NH. and constructs what are probably the finest homes in North America regarding efficiency and design.
His latest book is titled ” Timberframe “.
Thanks for your question, and I’ll be happy to address any other questions you may have about P2000. I know this tends to be a subject that takes a lot of study to reach a satisfying and solid conclusion.
Taylor
Taylor, how does it compare in price to fiberglass and foam. How do you install this foam? I have heard that termites like EPS. Does this EPS have borate in it? Anna
Anna, First the borate. The answer is no. EPS that is exposed to soil may use borate to kill termites, but this has a mylar wrap that prevents the EPS from coming in contact with the soil.
Cost per sq. ft. ranges from .52 – 1.65, depending on thickness. When the official
R values get posted next month, this promises to open a lot of eyes.
I’ll keep you posted, and keep the questions coming if you like.
Thanks,
Taylor
This is an interesting website.
I am a builder and the installer and other websites says that Icynene is the best open cell foam out there. It is better than closed sell because closed cell does allow air into the home. Closed cell foam fits between the studs like a pillow.
If it is installed correctly, it is better than closed cell foam. Icynene is not a food source for mold. It has been professional tested to see if it is a food source. It will not support any bacterial or fungal growth. It has no food value for insects or rodents. If there is a water problem in the home, you must fix the problem for any type of insulation.
Fiberglass is used in your furnace to filter air and the same thing happens in the wall with fiberglass insulation. The warm air goes up the inside just under the drywall and the cold air drops on the outside. You have to stop the air from moving (looping) and I would suggest Cellulose as the best answer. Air will not move in Cellulose. Try to burn cellulose and it will not burn. Try to burn fiberglass and it will melt.
I try to build affordable Energy Star homes in the $100 – $110 per square foot range. I use 15″ in the attic which is a R-52 with a 3 1/2″ raised energy heal, 3 1/2″ in the exterior wall and that is a R-12.95, caulk the plate line with drywall glue/caulk to stop the air between the bottom plate and OSB floor and insulate the box sill with 5″ of Icynene which is R-18. I finish up by priming the walls and ceiling drywall with vapor retarder paint.
The last home tested in at less than 70% to code. It met the Builders Challenge and for more information check out Dept. of Energy . . . DOE website: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/challenge/
I will check back and see how the debate goes on open or closed cell foam. I still think that Icynene is the best but you need to control any water leak in your home.
Dave, I thought closed cell did not let air infiltration into your home. Have you used the new Icynene with castor bean oil in it yet? See any difference? Anna
Anna, Closed cell is fixed and will not move, that is what I have been told anyway. Open cell is like a pillow, it will move with the framed of the home. I do not know what is in the Icynene … I build homes and try to listen to what people tell me. I check out a few websites about insulation and try to learn more about how to save energy. I do know that if you control the air movement, you will control the energy requirement.
Dave, keep up the great work on saving energy. Hopefully all builders in the future will think this way too.
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