Pavers sprayed with Burnout II.
How many of you have walkways, pavers, or driveways in which weeds are sticking out between the cracks? With August upon us, the weeds, especially crabgrass, are flourishing. Am I the only one who gets tired of yanking out weeds?
Long ago, I would have run to the store and grabbed a bottle of Roundup® and blasted them “straight to the moon” as Ralph Kramden would say to Alice of The Honeymooners fame. Round-up is your weeds worse enemy. According to a recent article in the Environmental Heath News,
“Used in yards, farms and parks throughout the world, Roundup has long been a top-selling weed killer. But now researchers have found that one of Roundup’s inert ingredients can kill human cells, particularly embryonic, placental and umbilical cord cells.
The new findings intensify a debate about so-called “inerts” — the solvents, preservatives, surfactants and other substances that manufacturers add to pesticides. Nearly 4,000 inert ingredients are approved for use by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Glyphosate, Roundup’s active ingredient, is the most widely used herbicide in the United States. About 100 million pounds are applied to U.S. farms and lawns every year, according to the EPA.”
Roundup® manufacturer Monsanto’s response? The methods used in the study “don’t reflect realistic conditions.” Despite their contention, the article further states,
“Last month, an environmental group petitioned Argentina’s Supreme Court, seeking a temporary ban on glyphosate use after an Argentine scientist and local activists reported a high incidence of birth defects and cancers in people living near crop-spraying areas. Scientists there also linked genetic malformations in amphibians to glysophate. In addition, last year in Sweden, a scientific team found that exposure is a risk factor for people developing non-Hodgkin lymphoma.”
This study is not the first one that has called Round-Up on the carpet. In 2005, Dr Mae-Wan Ho and Professor Joe Cummins called for urgent regulatory review of Roundup® in light of new scientific evidence.
“New research findings are raising serious concerns over the safety of the most commonly used herbicide, and should be sending shockwaves through proponents of genetically modified (GM) crops made tolerant to the herbicide, which now account for 75% of all GM crops in the world.
Worse yet, the most common formulation of the herbicide is even more toxic than the herbicide by itself, and is made by the same biotech giant that created the herbicide tolerant GM crops.”
In response to the allegations, Monsanto, stated Roundup® is safe.
What about animals? In 2005, a study conducted by the University of Pittsburgh revealed that Round-up was harmful to amphibians. The study found
“that Roundup® caused a 70 percent decline in amphibian biodiversity and an 86 percent decline in the total mass of tadpoles. Leopard frog tadpoles and gray tree frog tadpoles were completely eliminated and wood frog tadpoles and toad tadpoles were nearly eliminated. One species of frog, spring peepers, was unaffected,” according to the University’s statement.
This was not new news to me. I have stayed away from Round-up for some time and turned to Burnout II, about four years ago. I used it to kill Ragweed. The second time I purchased the product, I bought a concentrated version to save money. At the time, the concentrated version was made out of commercial vinegar, clove oil, and citric acid. The formulation has changed since then.
The advantage to using the product is that it shrinks the weeds, but unfortuneately does not kill them. The disadvantages were the product dried out my hands, the smell lingered for sometime, and larger weeds looked unsightly since the product did not cause them to shrink. (See picture above.)
In addition, do not store this product without placing it in another container since my sprayer leaked. It caused my concrete to foam up and pit (See picture above.)
Turned my metal cabinet black. (See picture above.) I was not a happy camper when those two occurrences happened. After the concrete incident, I called the Company’s technical department to find out why the product caused the discoloration of my concrete and cabinet.
What I learned is my bottle contains the old formulation. The new formulation no longer contains Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) , which caused my hands to dry out. SLS is in many personal care products. According to the Environmental Working Group’s Skin Deep Database, SLS can cause skin irritation along with more harmful affects . For more information about its use as a pesticide, see here. The new formulation contains clove oil, vinegar, and citrus acid as active ingredients and is OMRI listed. (The Organic Materials Review Institute provides a list of products that can be used in organic production, processing, and handling.)
During my conversation with technical support, I complained that the weeds just look like straw a few days after I sprayed them. When I try to pull them, they still will not come out easily. In fact, the weeds are exactly the same size as they were before I sprayed them. A little shriveled. So, what is the point of using this product?
The Company explained that perennial weeds may need more than one shot since they may regenerate. Annual weeds should be killed with one application. In addition, the label states:
“Best results are achieved from spring / early summer applications to actively growing young weeds. Weeds that are mature, dormant, or hardened due to moisture stress are more tolerant of herbicide treatments. Only contacted vegetation will be affected. Rainfall within one hour of application will reduce degree of control. Avoid application to reactive metals such as aluminum, tin, iron, or items such as fencing or lawn furniture in order to prevent staining, mottling, or otherwise interfering with finished metal surfaces. NOTE: All contacted vegetation will be affected. Avoid contact with desirable plants. Overspray or drift will injure or kill contacted vegetation.”
According to the Company, the product is effective on eliminating certain weeds such as dandelions, crabgrass, and ragweed. (See here for list of typical weeds that Burnout II will eliminate.) I sprayed in late summer and next year will try to spray in early spring/summer as advised. I found that grass, especially if you allow it to get long, takes quite a few application before it looks “burnt-out.” I have considered giving this long grass a short haircut before spraying it again.
As noted above, if there is any possibility of the bottle leaking or the dribbling from its sprayer, do not store it in or around a metal cabinet unless you have a pan underneath to catch the leak. I put my bottle in a leftover plastic paint tray and nothing has happened so far. As for my concrete, the technical person told me that BurnOut is like an acid and would etch my concrete. I replied that they should include a warning not to store in on your concrete floor unless it is in a pan.
For me, the jury is still out as to whether Burnout II works especially on unwanted grass. Has anyone had success with this product?
knutty knitter says
August 24, 2009 at 1:17 amwhy not use boiling water fresh out of the kettle. Completely non toxic and works just fine. Tough weeds may need a couple of applications and the water must really be just boiled. I tend to use whatever is left in the kettle after making a pot of tea.
viv in nz
Green Talk says
August 24, 2009 at 2:35 amknutty knitter, I know that trick too but my walkway is really long so I would doing a lot of boiling! Anna
Painting Overspray says
August 25, 2010 at 5:42 amNice tip. I didn’t realized that weeds die in hot water. Now I know where I can use our excess hot water.
Luc J says
August 24, 2009 at 1:00 pmI’m just back from the shop with a bottle of roundup, no kidding! Now you make me feel guilty, hate you for that 😉
I’ll consider alternatives next time.
.-= Luc J´s last blog ..Mosquito Bites Itch Relief – Click-Away =-.
Condo Blues says
August 24, 2009 at 9:45 pmI’ve heard that vinegar straight from the bottle works too. Can you put it in your old sprayer and go to town on those weeds?
.-= Condo Blues´s last blog ..Environmentally Friendly Flip Flop Giveaway – They Feelgoodz! =-.
Laura says
August 25, 2009 at 3:11 amTry vinegar with a reactive compound like baking soda or carbonate. This will disintegrate the weeds slowly and they cant grow back anytime soon because of the acid in the soil.
Green Talk says
August 25, 2009 at 9:48 pmLaura, how much vinegar to baking soda or carbonate? Does it matter what the temperature is outside when you spray it? Anna
knutty knitter says
August 27, 2009 at 8:02 amI have heard that a pinch of epsom salts will do it too but I’ve not tried that personally. Pavers are a pain. I’m afraid I just let things grow and scrape them off with the spade occasionally (about once a year :). I have bluebells in some of the cracks now and they are pretty. So is the daisy. Even the dandelions have their pluses.
viv in nz
Powell says
August 27, 2009 at 2:52 pmAs an agriculturist, I find many of the comments totally unfounded. So much untruth and innuendo abounds in any discussion of agriculture, crop protection, etc. Our population is so far removed from any agricultural related knowledge or experience that it is really disappointing. Epsom salt is a wonderful fertilizer and a pinch would only serve to nourish the weeds and make them much greener (try borax). Careful mixing vinegar and baking soda; it will explode (fizz) into your face and the resulting sodium acetate will not harm the weeds. Plain vinegar (5% acetic acid) will do little to the weeds and certainly no acid will remain in the soil from acetic acid.
April says
September 15, 2009 at 4:47 pm…only the ones I can properly identify but I am sure there are more I haven’t yet discovered: cleavers, purslane, chicory, plantain and dandelion are ones that grow in my yard…without any help from me.
cordless kettle says
February 18, 2010 at 4:12 pmIts amazing we wash and shower ourselves in the same chemicals we use in the garden. My wife wouldn’t believe me until I showed her this article.
Switching to all organic stuff in the garden from now on – and in the home too!
ma_che says
April 30, 2010 at 1:48 amRoundup is wonderful, especially for large patio areas where you don’t have to worry about killing toads. It’s the best.
Tom says
May 15, 2010 at 8:21 pm10% vinegar makes at least as effective a weedkiller as roundup. That is to say, it doesn’t kill every ‘weed’ and some things take multiple applications. But it won’t poison your soil and groundwater or cause cancer either! Not to mention that roundup has been known to kill trees… A friend of my parents sprayed it on some weeds in his yard and it didn’t kill the weeds but took out his oak trees!
You can make your own inexpensive vinegar weedkiller as follows:
1 gallon 10% grain vinegar (NOT acetic acid, that kind is from petroleum)
1 oz orange oil
1 oz molasses
small squirt of non-toxic soap (like Dr Bronner’s)
The molasses really is optional. Be careful with the orange oil. It is a strong solvent (its purpose here is to soften the plant tissue so the vinegar can get into it and be more effective- it can also burn plant foliage on its own at high enough concentrations). But, by the way, if you dilute it properly with water it makes an effective, great-smelling kitchen cleaner, or a cleaner to remove mold from a house, among other uses.
This mixture works on the foliage of the plant so green growing foliage will be more vulnerable to it. You will probably find that you will be much more successful on a hot, dry, sunny day than a cool overcast one. It’s important to play around with those variables to find what conditions work best. When you get it right, it will kill a plant within hours. If you don’t get it quite right, it may take days. Also, with certain tough weed grasses (like bermudagrass), you may turn it brown but it’s merely gone dormant. At some point it may ‘wake up’ and turn green again, or resprout from the rhizomes. You have to keep at it… or pull it out/mow it/learn to live with it.
Note that this mixture shouldn’t be stored in a pump sprayer because the vinegar will attack the seals.
Howard Garrett is a good source of info for organic gardening in general. He’s got great organic programs for trees, vegetables, etc on his website: http://www.dirtdoctor.com
Green Talk says
May 16, 2010 at 10:39 pmTom, where do you get the orange oil and can you sub anything for it? Also, I love Howard too.
How do you get rid of grass that is growing under and among your plants. I have dug up many a plant lately and pulled the grass out around the plant. Getting very tiresome. Anna
Tom says
May 17, 2010 at 1:26 pmHi Anna,
Well, here in Texas orange oil can be found in most organic nurseries or gardening stores, and also some stores like Home Depot carry it (once you find their tiny organic section). But I don’t know about your neck of the woods… If it comes to it you could order it online. Howard’s new site has it for sale from Medina (a great company that has a long history producing soil-nourishing products and amendments):
http://www.green-living.com/or.....trate.aspx
It will be somewhat more expensive than, say, Home Depot, but then again you’ll be supporting good people doing good work.
As for your question about grass, wish I knew the answer to that one too 🙁 Some grasses that don’t spread underground can just be carefully pulled out from moist loose soil, but heinous weeds like bermuda that spread underground are the worst… If you try pulling it out you could very well tear out your other plants too, and the bermuda will come back anyway. With those types of grasses, every segment that is underground can turn into a new grass plant so unless you somehow removed every single bit of it, it will still come back. The worst thing you could do is till or chop up the soil with the grass in it, because you’ll just vastly multiply your problems.
You could try the vinegar spray if you make, say, a cardboard shield that you can maneuver between your plants and the grass so you don’t spray the plants. You could also try snipping off the grass at ground level, then putting down a thin layer of compost (maybe 1/2 inch), adding some diluted liquid molasses (or dry molasses), covering with a good layer of newspaper or cardboard, wetting thoroughly, then covering with mulch. The idea being to stir up enough biological activity in the soil to rot the sunlight-starved grass. It would be a pain to try to do this between a bunch of plants but might be worth trying.
Be careful with the liquid molasses (or use dry molasses instead) because too much could hurt the roots of your other plants. Used moderately it is a great fertilizer for plants since the sugar feeds microbes that take nitrogen from the air and make it available to plants.
If the grasses are spreading into the bed from outside then some sort of steel or brick barrier that extends a few inches underground might help too.
Anyway, good luck. Love your site by the way!
Green Talk says
May 17, 2010 at 9:42 pmTom, it seems like the grass is coming from nowhere. It figures. You try and grow grass one place and it like to grow under you plants…Thanks for the tips. Anna
Tom says
May 17, 2010 at 1:50 pmForgot to specify…. I wouldn’t use more than 1 oz liquid molasses per gallon of water when doing the compost/newspaper/mulch thing.